starnet // (anonymous)

[loveedition]

I have a couple of questions.

Is it possible for someone to be so selfless that what they're doing becomes selfish?

How can you tell if the things that you're doing for other people aren't just for your self benefit?

And if they are, how can you tell if that's a bad thing or not?

Comments

UN: Starlight

[spacialeyes]

Mm, I think that helping people can be selfish.

And you should be doing it for your own benefit. You should be doing it because it makes you happy to help people, right?

I don't know if that's necessarily bad.

permanon 1/2

[loveedition]

[ She knew this would happen...! Hopefully he doesn't catch on?! ]

[loveedition]

I suppose that's true. What if it does make you happy, but makes a lot of others upset? That's still wrong, isn't it?

[spacialeyes]

Why would helping people make other people unhappy..?

[loveedition]

Helping one person doesn't always mean that you're helping everyone.

[spacialeyes]

[…]

You’re right!

Prioritizing people and leaving some people out

That’s so rude! That’ll hurt peoples’ feelings!

But not helping people isn’t good either, is it? What do we do?!

UN: xXdeadlynightgraceXx

[reapwhatyoupost]

[ oh lawd, they comin ]

not on its own, no. but if you're only living for others, and never yourself.......

well. i wouldn't really call that "living" at all.

[spacialeyes]

Does it really seem that way..?

Some people start hobbies or pursue careers in order to help others, right? I can't really do either of those things, but I want to spend my life making other lives easier.

I want people to know, even just for a brief moment, that their life was worth helping. That their safety and happiness is important. That they're valuable, you know?

I know it's selfish of me. But for me, I find it fulfilling.

[reapwhatyoupost]

i don't know that i really find it selfish. and i believe that it's fulfilling. i've experienced those same feelings myself, after all.

but there's such a thing as moderation. that's what we're talking about here. i've noticed several people here outright refuse the help of others. some of you seem to believe you're not worth the effort, or that all you're good for is solving other people's problems.

i may not find it selfish, but i'll be honest: i find it a bit insulting. here, in a world where all of us are fallen stars, each coming from our own fantastical worlds, what makes any one of us uniquely undeserving of help? that's the funny thing - when everyone is special, suddenly no one is.

do you really think you're so much worse than the rest of us? that no one here is determined, or caring, or maybe just troubled enough to offer you any meaningful help in return?

or are you just afraid if you open up, you'll hurt someone? you are not uniquely capable of causing harm - everyone i know fucks up, on a daily basis. believe me, i've committed plenty of atrocities over the years. and yet here i am, telling you self-love is important, because i practice it.

[spacialeyes]

[Yuuto doesn't respond immediately. They aren't anonymous, so neither of them can hide who they really are. In fact, that makes it even better that they both be honest.

But it's hard. He can tell that Milo is trying to help him, but he's not sure how to approach accepting it.]

I agree. No one here is unworthy of love or being helped. People exist together so that we can help each other. Humans get stronger and evolve as a civilization, because of they're capable of kindness.

[It's why he's so easily accepting of Akutagawa's past.

... But Milo is right. They're talking about moderation, which-]

I don't know what the situation for Anon-san is, but for me

It's not that I don't deserve help. Or entirely that I'm afraid.

I just don't think that I want it anymore. I'm sorry.

un: ailoveher

[polishedlove]

wat does it matter if ur looking out for urself first? humans are selfish~! join the club! & if you don't take care of u, how can u take care of others?

[loveedition]

That makes sense. But then, I've heard that sometimes you can look out for yourself by looking out for other people?

[polishedlove]

hmmm i guess

idk how useful youd be to someone if u fall apart in the process tho <3 wouldnt that make it worse for them? to kno that its their fault ur a broken doll?

[loveedition]

I wouldn't say it would be their fault, though. It's not their fault that I'm emotionally fragile.

[polishedlove]

sure... u can go in circles if u want but it sounds like it bugs u so u arent solving anything

or do u want to destroy ur emotions so u can give urself to ppl fully? thats kinda romantic... u cant be wishy washy abt that tho. kimiko knows u cant come back from it <3

anonymous; also breaks out of the ice for just this thread...

[dereban]

It is absolutely possible.

Regarding your second question, however, that's something that you'd have to analyze within yourself.

You'd have to ask yourself the question of "why". Why are you doing X? What possible benefits could doing X have for yourself, personally? Then think outside of that box. Ask yourself what other reasons you could be doing X for. If you can think of a good reason, then you might be in the clear.

But I will say it's not necessarily an easy task. You can potentially convince yourself that you're doing it for the other person's sake, but in reality it's just for your own ego.

However. If you're already asking these questions, you're already on the right track, I think. A person who simply does things for their own self benefit, even if the actions themselves can be read as selfless wouldn't dare even ask this, or bother trying to look within themselves.

Sorry for the tl;dr, though. I kind of had a lot to say on this specific topic, since I know someone who's been through similar.

If you want to talk about it further, I don't mind - whether it continues in public or if you want to open a private forum for further discussion. Either's fine, really.

[loveedition]

No need to apologize. Having a detailed perspective helps me out a lot.

I think it's too easy to think that just because you do things for other people, that means it's for the better good. Even if nobody asked for it. In that case, you're just forcing your own ideals onto someone else.

Otherwise, it's the same as trying to tell a lie long enough that it becomes the truth. I find that it might be fine to lie to yourself from time to time, but not if that'll hurt someone else.

...um. I can try to make a private forum? I don't know how well that'll work...

[dereban]

I agree.

But that's why you don't want to be "stuck in your own head" for those types of things. Communication is important, after all.

[ She's a hypocrite, though. But she's right - a private forum would be hard with the systems that are being used here. ]

Might be hard, though. Starnet is imperfect in the sense that anonymous one on ones aren't really easy, especially since it's not tech-based.

[loveedition]

That was my problem. I thought I could handle this stuff on my own, but it's a lot harder to work out than I thought.

Trust me, I know. Communication outlets based on magic are kind of a pain.

[ She doesn't miss the mirrors, though. ]

[dereban]

No man is an island.

People are dependent on others. While there's a lot that can be done on your own, many things can only be done through the work of others. Well, I can't say that I know your exact situation to like, give the best advice on the matter.

It doesn't seem like the kind of thing to just give a vague reply, you know? There's no one size fits all.

UN: xXdeadlynightgraceXx

[reapwhatyoupost]

is it really ego? to me it sounds more like a form of self-loathing. a way to avoid looking inward at one's self by focusing all your energy outward.

they say helping others should make you happy. i don't think there's any inherent harm in that. but if you focus on others to the detriment of your own self-care, that happiness will be hollow.

i don't know if it's selfish. really, i just think it's sad.

(anonymous)

[loveedition]

[ ...it is pretty damn sad, actually. All of their words hit home, in combination with what the other anonymous person was saying... ]

Hi, this is the person that asked the question at the start. I think you make a really good point too.

I haven't looked at myself fondly for a while now. Maybe that's part of it. It would make me feel better to know that those around me are happier than I am.

[reapwhatyoupost]

you know, sometimes people say you can't love others until you love yourself. honestly, i think it's a load of shit. for most people, their bonds with others ARE what uplift them. but you have to actually let them IN if you want that to work.

if helping others benefits yourself as well as others, then why aren't others allowed to help you in return? they'd reap those same benefits you're talking about.

unless, of course, you aren't actually getting anything from it at all, and that's just a lie you tell yourself so you can continue being motivated to be a "good person".

also permanon;

[dereban]

Anonymous poster you replied to here.

I'm not going to assume I know the full details of OP's situation. I'm just speaking from personal experience. It could be egotistical, because I've personally seen it happen.

Sure, helping others can - and should - make both parties happy. That's supposed to be natural, right? But there's a fine line to be drawn.

You can throw yourself into helping others all you want, but it's the mentality that matters. The "why".

Anyway, I'm not saying that you're necessarily incorrect, however: I do think it's pitiful, and that yeah, people can be doing selfless acts to put their focus on other people versus taking care of themselves. However, I don't think that the possibility of doing selfless acts for selfish reasons should be ignored, either.

[reapwhatyoupost]

hmmmm.

i think i may need examples to truly understand what you're referring to. i won't discount the possibility entirely, but i've seen what i'm describing countless times. i'm not sure if i have any personal experience with what you're talking about.